Gareth Potter ([info]ickoonite) wrote,
@ 2005-12-28 10:39:00
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education education education
(In response to this...)

I've never understood why it's thought that keeping the gifted and disadvantaged in the same classroom is a good idea anyway. One of the most braindead policies of Old Labour, which has alas been carried through into Tony Blair's New Labour, is that of the abolition of grammar schools (free, selective schools which take the gifted out and give them the opportunity to succeed). Instead they believe that all should attend what we call comprehensive schools, which accept all children in a given area and set them according to ability.

The problem, however, is that placed in the same geographical location, the gifted - who are generally inevitably to bear the brunt of the disadvantaged's anger and frustration - are deterred from their studies and then fail to perform as well as they might if they were in a grammar. The comprehensive is in so many ways a manifestation of that ideal society of which the Left dreams, where everyone lives in harmony.

The reality - that comprehensives mirror the conflict of the community that surrounds them - is much different, and I consider it irresponsible to threaten the futures of so many by clinging to mistaken ideals. The only point one might make in favour of mixing the gifted and disadvantaged, then, is that to do so would create a "character-building" experience for the gifted of which we speak.

Do the gifted need to undergo "character-building" experiences at that age? Perhaps. But I do wonder whether bullying and victimisation are the best ways to go about it.



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[info]vulgar_shudder
2005-12-28 11:30 am UTC (link)
See I disagree with this. I was in Lincolnshire where there is the 11-plus still, and I took it and failed. So I was relegated to the comprehensive where I was taught typing skills, how to cook, and sewing skills. Now I wonder where they were setting me up for?

What more I had a friend who went to the Grammer school, and quite frankly she was miserable. To say it's just the 'disadvantaged' who bully is perpostuious.

The thing is testing at age 11 isn't going to accuratly identify the 'gifted', binning them on a verbal reasoning test at such an early age isn't fair. Streaming within comprehensives can satisfy the higher demand pupils. Bullying and misbehaviour is nothing to do with the 'disadvantaged' mixed with the 'gifted'.

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[info]vulgar_shudder
2005-12-28 11:31 am UTC (link)
And it didn't spell check my comment...oh well that's what 4 years of a comprehensive does for you.

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[info]steve_optimist
2005-12-30 12:37 am UTC (link)
This is a suite of very fair comments. I suppose it is a very independent-school-centred view to suggest Ickoonite's perspective, but as I'm sure he will admit, independent schools have formed a large proportion of his career (as they have mine - thanks to Assisted Places a low income kid such as I was could go to a very good independent school; pity it's not available any more).

Streaming within comprehensives is (excuse the pun) very comprehensive, but in several cases it is not enough to give a) the more able pupils enough room to achieve and b) the less able pupils enough support to succeed. But these are individual cases and should be judged per school, rather than having a country-wide central ideal enforced upon them.

Likewise, bullying occurs in all schools throughout the country, comprising pupils of all abilities and backgrounds. Luckily, there are both well-established and newer fledgling schemes being introduced to help mitigate the effects on youngsters. Admittedly, it would be blind optimism to expect these to eradicate the problem; yet I am digressing.

Using great universal ideals (such as "keep all pupils of all abilities in the same classes") to run different schools in different financial and staffing situations is a recipe for mild disaster, if I do say so myself. One of the points hinted at in the original post was that of the government having too much or too little control over schools. My response is that there could do with a little less input from Whitehall in favour of LEAs. But hey, that's just me. :-)

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[info]steve_optimist
2005-12-30 12:38 am UTC (link)
Apple logies: ended up ranting there myself, and I didn't mean to. Can't tell I want to be a teacher when I grow up, can you? ;-)

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